Keith's boat leak

*Shoaldrafter* · 11-03-2009, 01:23 pm

Keith said, "so it has to be water seeping iin from the hose that the keel blade line runs through".

Keith, explain to me the location of this hose line. Is it from the cockpit to under the cockpit to the bilge then thru the the hull to the centerboard. If it did not rain, and no additional water went into cockpit, how could it be supplying water for your leak? Did it rain overnite? Is your morning dew that much?

Consider - is there water in your water tank? Could that be the source of your water?

Back to page one, do you have a tarp or other cover over the boat? You never did answer that question.

Have you taken the stairway out to examine the suspect hose connections? How does the hose connection and visible parts look? Can you inspect the metal tubing before the connection? Has the metal tube ever frozen with water in it?

How about taking that camera and taking pictures of what you are talking about? Maybe arrows on pictures to identify suspected leak?

Is there any water or wetness forward of the bilge boards under the head and vanity area? Have you stuck your head under setee with flashlight and looked forward?

Consider that if the boat is sitting on a trailer and it has not rained what is the fluid you are looking at? Do you have squirrels peeing in the boat at night?

Is your neighbor having fun with you?

Ed K
26
Addendum: "Sailing is the fine art of getting wet and becoming ill while slowly going nowhere at great expense."

*emergpa1* · 11-03-2009, 03:26 pm

as to squirrels peeing in the boat, maybe..ha
yep, the answer to all the above inspection problems is yes i checked that, water tank is good, under settees, etc.
the boat is not covered.
the hose line begins in the cockpit just aft of the gangway, the hose goes through the floor of the cockpit, then under the aft sole area at bilge level, goes forward underneath the stairs (under the floor board) and into the bilge. the hose at this poinit aalways seems to be damp, even when i dry it,, then it goes into the bulge in the bilge that is the top of the keel blade compartment. the water is most definately coming from the bilge hose area. the water in this hose might initially come from the rain, but after that i filled it yesterday with the garden hose, i think it holds water (the keel blade is up since it is on the trailer). But i do know that some of it drains out because i went under the boat to check. .It has to be coming from that as everything else is dry.
i am going to leave it for now, i want to try my test again. I suctioned out water again today, i will be sure that the ,bilge is dry for a day or two, then add water to the hose and see what happens , that should answer the question.
keith

*Shoaldrafter* · 11-03-2009, 04:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by emergpa1

as to squirrels peeing in the boat, maybe..ha
yep, the answer to all the above inspection problems is yes i checked that, water tank is good, under settees, etc.
the boat is not covered.
the hose line begins in the cockpit just aft of the gangway, the hose goes through the floor of the cockpit, then under the aft sole area at bilge level, goes forward underneath the stairs (under the floor board) and into the bilge. the hose at this poinit aalways seems to be damp, even when i dry it,, then it goes into the bulge in the bilge that is the top of the keel blade compartment. the water is most definately coming from the bilge hose area. the water in this hose might initially come from the rain, but after that i filled it yesterday with the garden hose, i think it holds water (the keel blade is up since it is on the trailer). But i do know that some of it drains out because i went under the boat to check. .It has to be coming from that as everything else is dry.
i am going to leave it for now, i want to try my test again. I suctioned out water again today, i will be sure that the ,bilge is dry for a day or two, then add water to the hose and see what happens , that should answer the question.
keith

Keith,

Try raising the bow so that water in cockpit drains faster to cockpit drain. Which leads me to question. Any dampness around cockpit drain. Put some dry paper under cockpit drain to see if any leaks.

I found my leaked a little and would follow the hose down and the drip at thru hull then follow the hull down to tube for C/B line. Do you have hose clamps? If yes, try to tighten with nut driver and not screw driver. If you do not have any, put some on. I have a total of four in that area. On the hull side tight but not so tight as to crack thru hull.

Also, remember the thru hull and connections under the sink. That could leak and follow hull to hose you are talking about. Hard place to reach and see. Might could use flashlight and stick head under starboard setee and see that area.

Maybe you could try divining sticks?

Ed K
26

*emergpa1* · 11-03-2009, 04:24 pm

hey good idea for the galley sink through hull, i will check that out
keith

*emergpa1* · 11-03-2009, 04:29 pm

dang, i just realized that the aft sink through hull inspection and repair will require me to remove the entire aft counter and rear bulkhead, given that it is the most difficult thing to repair of the possibilities, that has to be the where the leak is coming from......sigh

*RBone* · 11-03-2009, 04:29 pm

How about plugging the hole where the c/b lanyard enters the cockpit.

Rich

*Shoaldrafter* · 11-04-2009, 04:25 am

Keith,

You keep jumping to conclusions.

Keith said, " i just realized that the aft sink through hull inspection and repair will require me to remove the entire aft counter and rear bulkhead, given that it is the most difficult thing to repair of the possibilities, that has to be the where the leak is coming from......sigh"

Are you sure that is where the water is coming from? Have you seen the leak?

Before you go ripping everything out, make double sure that is where the leak is.

Have you used an inspection mirrow under the cabinet under the sink?

Have you stuck your head in access port under starboard setee?

Is is wet in that inaccessible space between bilge in cabin and bilge under cockpit?

Water in that interspace area does not have to be coming from hose or metal tubing links. Water can get into that area by other tracks. Consider that it could be coming from cabin top? How? Running inside starboard cabin linner directly under stove area and icebox area to that inner space then tracking to small inaccessible bilge area. Did you take grab rails on cabin top off? Water could track from rear holes around liner then unseen to starboard side of boat to bilge.

You should be able to see under that area from access port under starboard setee. Any dampness when hose water applied to cabin top? Have you done hose test completely yet?

Have you evaluate patency of hose connecting metal tube for C/B to thru hull? Evaluated with water?

Are you sure that you can get at problem area by taking out bulkhead? On my boat everything sits on top of that floor board. Very problematic in getting to that area.

Where is Appleman on this question?

Ed K
26

*emergpa1* · 11-04-2009, 07:26 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoaldrafter

Keith,

You keep jumping to conclusions.

Keith said, " i just realized that the aft sink through hull inspection and repair will require me to remove the entire aft counter and rear bulkhead, given that it is the most difficult thing to repair of the possibilities, that has to be the where the leak is coming from......sigh"

Your right, i didn't mean that completely serious. i am going to put the water to that area and check it out carefully

Are you sure that is where the water is coming from? Have you seen the leak?

Before you go ripping everything out, make double sure that is where the leak is.

Have you used an inspection mirrow under the cabinet under the sink?

Have you stuck your head in access port under starboard setee?

Is is wet in that inaccessible space between bilge in cabin and bilge under cockpit?

Not that i could tell, i did cut a two inch round hole under the floor board that is under the steps in that little compartment, but it was dry, i did not cut all the way over to the midline, so there could still be water there.

Water in that interspace area does not have to be coming from hose or metal tubing links. Water can get into that area by other tracks. Consider that it could be coming from cabin top? How? Running inside starboard cabin linner directly under stove area and icebox area to that inner space then tracking to small inaccessible bilge area. Did you take grab rails on cabin top off? Water could track from rear holes around liner then unseen to starboard side of boat to bilge.

I did take everything off the boat and reseat including the rails. , and i have repeatedly checked during heavy rains for leaks,in addition to using the hose, some things did leak and were reseated (the mistake was usually in not bevellinig the screw holes) but now the cabin top is bone dry. I check by running my hand along all the edges and even behind the top in that little groove where the top meets the hull. bone dry all. Keep in mind i have completley rewired the boat also, that means i have crawled up into all those little spaces, nooks and cranies aft of the cabin liner looking forward from the hold. they are dry too (now that i have corrected the leaks from the toe rails and the instruments. )

You should be able to see under that area from access port under starboard setee. Any dampness when hose water applied to cabin top? Have you done hose test completely yet?

I still need to apply the hose to the through hull for the aft sink, and if that is dry, and the bilge is still dry this morning, then i am going to fill the metal tube for the c/b again, if i get water, that is gotta be it. We still have had no rain, and i did not use the water for the aft sink since i dried out the bilge (again) yesterday, so if water is in the bilge again, it can't be from the sink, and it can't be from rain, it is not from the cabin top, it would have to be from water that the c/b settup is holding from me filling the tube with water. Regarding the aft cockpit drain, i did have a little leak there, but reseated that and everything is dry there, same for the jcockpit, through floor fitting that is for the c/b tube, no leak there now either. so if the cb tube is leaking it has to be from the hose connections that are at the bilge. the connections above the bilge stay dry now. they do have pipe clamps. no water gets into the hold aft of the bilge except a small trickle from the starboard rub rail near the back. but the port side is bone dry. the water is definatly coming from somewher at the bilge, the sink through hull, or the c.b tube

Have you evaluate patency of hose connecting metal tube for C/B to thru hull? Evaluated with water? Are you sure that you can get at problem area by taking out bulkhead? On my boat everything sits on top of that floor board. Very problematic in getting to that area.

I could get to that area by removing the steps and then the two peiced of plywood that make up that little box under the steps, then the steps themselves. that owould not get me too the through hull under the sink thoough, and i don't think i would have to access that area to rep;ace the hose and hose clamps on the cb tube.

Where is Appleman on this question?
I have been thinking about him lately. Did he give up boating? I am sure this is apple season, maybe that is what it is. I hope everything is ok with him and his family
Thanks for the help. I will have some time to investigate today.

Ed K
26

P.s i have begun to polish. cannot quiet get the shine I want with compound, i may experiment with wet sanding today.

*emergpa1* · 11-06-2009, 08:03 pm

wow, i have tried to find the leak but can't , now each morning there is less and less, with only a spoonfull today, that could just be the residual draining from the area under the gangway. i have don a lot of spraying around the outside of the boat but no water coming in. it is not from the through hull for the galley sink thank god, nor is it from the tube for the c/b. possibley it was from a combination of the pump draining backward, and water trapped in the bilge under the gangway seeping forward.
I did get my girl polished this week. spent all week on it but she finally looks almost new. I will post my trials and tribulations on that soon. maybe it will be a help to those that follow.
also installed a four stage 'reya - dolphin' battery charger. i tried to read as much as i could and this seemed to be a good investment. if it saves me from having to replace or buying one battery it will have paid for itself. i should be able to finish my wiring tomorrow. the last few items i needed, fuse box, etc, came today.

*RBone* · 11-06-2009, 09:02 pm

Wow, all that and you still find time to work.

Rich

*emergpa1* · 11-08-2009, 10:35 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBone

Wow, all that and you still find time to work.

Rich

i had taken most of last week off to try to get things done. i go back to work today.....

*emergpa1* · 11-10-2009, 09:36 am

so after thorough investigation of the mysterious leak, it seems that the water was from a combination of residual drainage from both the manual pump, and the water under the gangway bilge (which is nigh on inaccessable) slowly seeping forward. After spending several days suctioning it dry, it has stayed dry, even after nearly 18 hours of rain plus with all my spraying of the fittings and through hulls and rub rail with the hose. It seems that now that i have sealed the last of the leaky hinges in the cockpit the bilge is not filling up....
so my conclusion, if you still get water in your bilge after drying it, realize it may take a few days to competely remove the last of the water from the bilge pump diaphragm case, and the bilge area under the gangway.
keith